Lundi 20 février 2006 1 20 /02 /Fév /2006 01:41
I don't think I can bring myself to deliver an exhaustive list of tips in learning a Romance language. It's too mammoth a task. So where does one go from the point of no return the moment one's decided, for example, oui ze french languiz iz for me; or,  l'italiano mi va bene.

There was this one time a professor at Sydney Uni advising all first years -assumption of no knowledge of the target language- that for a European language speaking student, it'd take about four/five years of a full time study to learn an Asian language (must be those of North Asian, or the super curly ones, can't be our Bahasa) and two/three years for an intra-European language (if you're an Anglophone).

So that's a bit of good news eh.

One's circumstances determine the mode of learning along with the motivation, opportunity etc. So to  get you up and running in the quickest time possible:

1. look for a class.
This is the most excellent way, try to get more than two hours per week for that acceleration that you'll want to happen, believe you me. if one's lucky enough, having a native speaker professor (as they're all called in all Romance language, referring to a teacher) helps heaps.

2. get a head start.
Romance languages are special, they have notably complex conjugation and grammar syntaxes and system that'd put a pain of migraine into shame. Only a few languages in the world are reputed to be harder than the Romance family.

What I did was a couple of months before my French class started, I invested in a couple of grammar books, one of those "idiot" titles. Felt like one too, truth be told. Idiot titles are way too self-paced, too leisurely to the point of tedium. If I had to recommend anyone, the «teach yourself» series are heaps better.

Books are not always available, the Web however proves to be an invaluable source of information, they come cheap and provide endless bits and pieces for a great self-study session.

3. get a grip.
Not to discourage anyone, the following will puzzle any student of the Romance language starting from nought:

gender (or genre, in French)

Each noun is either masculin or feminin (lucky, we have no neuter as in eg. German). Most of the time, there's a pattern, an ending that quickly tells you which one it is. Italian is quite consistent, most words ending
in -o are masc whereas -a are feminin. French takes a bit of an effort to get it right, structurally risque and silence (ending in -que and -ence) suggest they are feminin, they're not.
accordisation.

Romance languages insanely demand one accords everything that's to be accorded.

a red apple is eaten, two red apples are eaten.
(IT) una mela verde è stata mangiata » due mele verdi sono state mangiate

And when it comes to crunch time, this poses a lot of problems for the simpletons (like myself, LOL)
article

And plenty of it.

I like music. Music is my life. The music I like is ... -1 definite article
(FR) J'aime la musique. La musique est ma vie. La musique que j'aime -3 articles
(IT) Amo la musica. La musica è la mia vita. La musica che amo -4 articles [no wonder Italy is the land of bureaucrazy]
reflexive verbs

Perplexingly complicated for Anglophones. Simply because in English it is not required or exists in a simpler and more obvious form.

My name is.   Je m'appelle ... (lit. I call myself)
He wakes up.    Il se réveille ... (lit. he wakes himself)
conjugation.

a single verb, in each tense, may be conjugated six ways.
I eat, you eat, he/she eats, we eat, you eat, they eat.
(IT) io mangio, tu mangi, lui/lei mangia, noi mangiamo, voi mangiate, loro mangiono.
(FR) je mange, tu manges, il/elle mange, nous mangeons, vous mangez, ils/elles mangent.

It may be a case that in total, my French dictionary suggests, there are fifty one (51) different patterns to conjugate French verbs. Don't let the figure fools you, some are repetition with a slight difference or irregularity, they should be managable along the course of time.
tenses.

Romance languages endorse more tenses or composite tenses than the fingers in my two hands. Each tense has its own rule, forms, and conjugation pattern.
liaison, elision, contraction. No, these are not meant to be dirty words.

This is where the Gallic language showcases its monstrosity of rigidness.

Les amants amoureaux, pronounced
lezamañzamureu - it's abosultely not wysiwyg.

You should uncover the rest of the puzzle.
mind-numbing orthography

French has no shortage of accented words, and sometimes an accented letter may transmute within a word just for the sake of pronunciation.

théâtre = theatre
préférer (to prefer), je préfère (I prefer), and finally j`ai préféré (I preferred)
espérer (to hope), j'espère (I hope)
recevoir (to receive), j'ai réçu (I received)

stress, emphasis and accented syllable

Italians speak as if they're on an opera stage and consequently their tongue stresses a particular syllable, just like in English, only nicer, more melodious. LOL

carattere, caratterische
simplicity. or lack of it.

English two out of three times is more efficient than Roman languages in terms of the number of letters used. This is compensated in a different way though, the French speak as if two whole blocks of paragraph a single sentence, whilst the Italians the whole text are strung by an invisible punctuation. Italian often omits the pronoun simply because the conjugated ending is as clear as the sky on a Sicilian summer day to indicate the subject, eg. che dici (what are you saying?)
irregularities or exception

No more than in English. But, again, we are looking at unique languages with a set of «secret codes» where logic is not the name of the game.

French, le vagin (vagina) is a masculine word.
Italian, un braccio (ar arm) masculine turns into due braccia (two arms) feminin word.

4. does the end justify the means
In this case, Absolutely. The endless possibility to explore the ruins, artefacts, an abundance of arts in those (european) Latin countries. The awesome culture. The sumptuous cuisine of each region. The dance. The music. The perpetual drama of life.

In bocca al lupo - bonne chance.

Enjoy the ride. It may get bumpy.



Links for self-study on Italian and French grammar, may well possibly include those of other Romance family and even German (the European economic powerhouse)

Both :
BBC Languages    ─ excellent, with numerous examples
Language Guide   ─ excellent, with audio

Français Italiano
About French
Jump-gate
Lefrançais.com

About Italian
GWC
Wikipedia Italian
Harvard
Par macchi - Publié dans : la lingua
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Commentaires

This -long non exhaustive-list is very useful, especially for a beginner class-er like me, who has one of the objectives in 2006 to learn of of the said language you wrote. (And keep procrastinating it !)


Tentang menulis, I cannot find peaceful-ample time to update my blog. Care to contribute in my blog ? Hehehehe ..

Commentaire n°1 posté par Silverlines le 20/02/2006 à 04h32

Silverlines : which one? LOL, errr ... I'm dying to  have a guess but I probably won't. We'll let our imagination run wild eh.

To contribute in one else's blog is a breach of the Geneva Convention 1999 article 3.36!

Réponse de macchi le 20/02/2006 à 05h23
Et voila!!

Here comes Macchi with his French and Italian skills. :)

L'accent, le grammaire, la prononciation, et l'autographe..mon Dieu!

Le français est une langue trop complique. Enfin, pour le cours, essaye de prendre un cours intensif dans une ville francophone. J'ai pris un, une fois. Dans 3 mois, je pouvais écrire (mieux que maintenant) et parler plus que Bonjour, et comment allez-vous..:)

Merci pour la liste, je vais essayer de recommencer le français. Cette fois, c'est pour maitriser d'écrire en français.
Commentaire n°2 posté par Pipit le 20/02/2006 à 08h25

romance languages?


meh...


learn more about actually being romantic, ya sayang. only then will i applaud u.


udah jadi surfie?

Commentaire n°3 posté par pyro le 20/02/2006 à 08h40
Pyro: belom jadi surfie, susah, entah berapa ratus jam meluncur diperlukan sebelum bisa sandang status ini, mungkin tak akan pernah.
Réponse de macchi le 20/02/2006 à 10h11

It's the French, my dear, and No it has nothing to do with anyone nationality or mother-tongue or language capability, no. It's been there since I had to put learning objective in my Career Management System.  And since French is one of UN language *or so they say*, I am rather "forced" to learn.


But still, I will let your imagionation run wild ..


And by the way, when was blogging first invented that they have the Geneva Convention already in 1999 ? *LOL*

Commentaire n°4 posté par Silverlines le 20/02/2006 à 09h29
Pipit: bien sûr, tout à fait d'accord. j'était tout choqué pendant les premières deux semaines. enfin, cela à commencé à aller mieux. et voilà je l'adore jusqu'ici !

Silverlines; what nationality, did I mention any? err ... I did? Boh ...

Ahahhh, you,  .. like, ... errr, work ... for the UN? Hey, French is a UN official language, one that no one wants to us except for the French delegation for their veto purpose! ^^

Anyhooow, you really absolutely undoubtedly must learn French. You'll get to swear in the most romantic language too! How brilliant is that. Here's a sneak peek: merde (shit) very general, most applicable in any situation that arises.

The Geneva Convention was sure was there, some bright people were quick to predict the communication revolution.
Réponse de macchi le 20/02/2006 à 10h17

The first question, yes I do work there.


And thanks for the first tips or vocab or cursing word .. And I did take French language some years ago for only 6 months but somehow it left me nothing but J'et Aime ... errr okay there's some other basic words but that's it. Nothing left in my getting-older-and-older brain ..

Commentaire n°5 posté par Silverlines le 20/02/2006 à 10h46
Silverlines: here's another one :  putain, crétin, con (all to a jerk) pute, conasse (catfight)   .... or the ultimate: enculé (get f.....)
Réponse de macchi le 20/02/2006 à 11h09
To keep it as the most beautiful language, you might want to put some tips on how to PRONOUNCE it, my dear .... it is no-less important than how to write it. Surely I expect to say it more than writing it ... :-P
Commentaire n°6 posté par Silverlines le 20/02/2006 à 12h09
je m'interesse notamment sur le celt (la langue, musique, culture).  macchi, je te mettre en lien sur mon blog oke..keep in touch!
Commentaire n°7 posté par myr le 20/02/2006 à 18h10
Silverlines: pronunsiasi cursing words-nya atau secara umum? Alrightyho, saya pikirkan, kalo ada waktu mengapa tidak. Sekalian.

LOL - I could definitely see how you'll lose your head, spit (twice, for good measure) at your dumbarsed boss/workmate, and tell him to f.o. - in French, s'il te plait! I hope they see it coming!

^^ lol

Myr: mouais, pas de problème. ca me ferais plaisir en fait. je mettrais le tien bientôt ok, dès que j`ai plus de temps.

Au fait, sur la culture celtique? La quelle, celle française ou irlandaise? Pourquoi ça?
Réponse de macchi le 20/02/2006 à 20h59
Oh I really wish I could spit out the French words, but first things first, let me learn how to pronounce it correctly so they get the message alright.  And the pronounciation, not only the cursing words, please. We do need some other decent words to enrich our vocabulary, don't we all ?
Commentaire n°8 posté par Silverlines le 21/02/2006 à 04h23

Posting «pronunsiasi» akan diterbitkan segera. Tapi untuk saat ini, tanpa garansi dulu yah.

Urusan tak kelar, GMT+2 atau GMT+14?

^^ lol

Réponse de macchi le 21/02/2006 à 04h37

"Les amants amoureaux, pronounced lezamañzamureu - it's abosultely not wysiwyg."


LOL. hilarious. i love coming to this blog, it just keeps getting updated! =P

Commentaire n°9 posté par mia le 21/02/2006 à 07h55
Mia: ca me fait du bien donc! Ce qui est passé c'est que j'ai eu plein de temps, ma chef étati partie et puis j'ai tapé un peu et voilà! LOL

Tu te sens mieux?
Réponse de macchi le 21/02/2006 à 10h37

I believe this timezone thing is to be discussed in a less public media than here ... :P



BTW, I am so trying the colors in your comment box, excuse my curiosity please ..

Commentaire n°10 posté par Silverlines le 22/02/2006 à 03h35
Is it the clock in my blog that distract you to this GMT+2 thing ? If it is, Oh so sorry , I think I am toooo lazy to change the timezone, it's an old story, the GMT+2 ... :P
Commentaire n°11 posté par Silverlines le 22/02/2006 à 04h54
yeah, the "teach yourself"-series is quite good for beginners... and they're offering so many interesting languages...  :)

what's so fascinating about learning foreign languages is that you learn to see the world in other ways... in other words... in other ways of expressing your experience...  it's definitely worth the price of hard work!

btw... aneh ya tapi bahasa2 yang paling kompleks di dunia ini ya bahasa2 dari suku aborigin Australia dan Indian Amerika... hampir tidak mungkin dipelajari lagi oleh orang dewasa... begitu kompleks struktur gramatiknya. Dulu waktu PD ke2 tentara Amrik menggunakan bahasa Navajo Indian sebagai code talk yang tidak mungkin dimengerti oleh Jepang... bhs Navajo jadi code language yg perfect, tidak bisa di-decode oleh Jepang, karena struktur gramatiknya begitu beda dengan semua bahasa dunia lain...  Padahal kan menurut persepsi kita suku pedalaman itu "primitif" budayanya, jadi bahasanya pasti primitif alias serba simple juga... eh ternyata malah paling kompleks...
Commentaire n°12 posté par Ni Londo le 22/02/2006 à 14h47
penasaran sih ama bahasa itali ma prancis, tapi kok ngejlimet,, i'm learning german and subjectively it's easier,, >.<
Commentaire n°13 posté par da conks le 03/05/2006 à 05h50
More & more people know that blog are good for every one where we get lots of information any topics !!!
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